Notes for Azed 2,777

There are usually one or two points of interest in an Azed puzzle, and here we pick them out for comment. Please feel free to add your own questions or observations on any aspect of the puzzle (including clues not listed below) either by using the comment form at the bottom of the page or, if would prefer that your question/comment is not publicly visible, by email.

Azed 2,777 Plain

My difficulty rating: 2 out of 5 stars (2 / 5)

This puzzle can be found at https://cdn.slowdownwiseup.co.uk/media/documents/obs.AZED.20260301.pdf

A pleasant enough diversion, though I struggled to make much sense of quite a few of the surface readings. The wordplay for 7a is faulty, and the definition at 23a should have an ‘antique’ qualifier, since the required spelling is given by Chambers as ‘obsolete’.

Setters’ Corner: This week I’m going to look at clue 11a, “Expert creating flaw (5)”. A double definition clue, the first definition leading to an adjective and the second to a noun, which raises two questions around this type of clue. Firstly, since both definitions appear under the same headword in Chambers, does that invalidate, or alternatively devalue, the clue? The clue would only be invalidated if either the two meanings were so close as to be nearly indistinguishable, or if there was another word which satisfied both definitions. In an ideal double definition clue, (i) the definitions lead to different headwords in Chambers and (ii) there is at least one difference in parts of speech between the surface reading and the defined answers. This clue doesn’t pass the first test, but it does score on the second count (through ‘expert’), so it’s not bad as double definitions go.

Secondly, is the link word ‘creating’ appropriate? If the wordplay involves assembly of the answer, the link ‘creating’ in the direction of the definition seems absolutely fine. If the wordplay is a definition of a word which shares the same letters with a different headword in Chambers, I think you could make an argument for its validity. But when the two definitions lead to the same word, I don’t think it’s acceptable – something can’t ‘create’ itself, it already is itself.

Across

7a Swells kicked the bucket after end of celebration (4)
A two-letter abbreviation of the Latin word for ‘died’ follows the last letter (‘end’) of ‘celebration’, the result being…a three-letter word for a swell (singular). Adding the S to make the plural is seemingly, as they say, left to the solver as an exercise. Could the three-letter abbreviation for ‘obsolete’ be a possibility? In a word, no.

12a Jazz type making poet dance switching parts (7, 2 words)
A four-letter word for a poet (in particular, Hamnet’s dad) and a three-letter word for a dance (such as Danny & the Juniors were at in 1957) exchange their first letters (‘switching parts’) to produce the (4,3) answer.

20a Ballot-box information twice yielding names to press (4)
Three-letter words for a ballot box (or a tea dispenser) and for information (something of a crossword staple) each give up (‘yielding’) the usual abbreviation for ‘name’.

22a Indicating port side, outer bits cut from whale bone (4)
A six-letter word for whalebone loses its first and last letters (‘outer bits cut’). Although the general nature of the definition leaves no doubt about the intended answer, I don’t believe that it’s accurate.

25a Dance round baron, brave one in activity involving boxers? (9)
A four-letter dance containing (’round’) the single-letter abbreviation for ‘Baron’ is followed by a four-letter word figuratively used to describe a person of exceptional courage. Azed has been naughty here, using ‘boxers’ instead of ‘Boxers’ for the cryptic reading, despite repeatedly expressing his objection to this practice. In the Slip for comp 1,190, he wrote, “I have always maintained – and here again I follow the Ximenean line – that it is permissible to give a capital initial to a non-proper noun anywhere in a clue if it suits one’s purpose (e.g. to make it appear as if it were a name), but that it is not permissible to reduce a normal initial capital letter to lower case for similar reasons. The former seems to me (just) fair; the latter strikes me as unfairly misleading.”

33a Digger on ship a short distance from India (4)
There are several short words of Maori origin which form part of the setter’s core vocabulary. One of these is ‘pa’, a fort or settlement, and another is the two-letter ‘digging stick’ here (for which ‘digger’ seems barely adequate). It is followed by the usual two-letter abbreviation suggested by ‘ship’, the result being one spelling of an Indian measure of distance ‘averaging 1¾ miles’ (how that works, I have no idea).

34a Fish twice interspersed with English marine slug (8, 2 words)
A familiar six-letter fish has the usual abbreviation for ‘English’ inserted twice, between different pairs of letters. The (3,5) nudibranch with a ‘warty yellowish body ‘ looks just about as tasty as it sounds.

Down

4d Crack that’s devoid of extremes? It was a mild oath (4)
A six-letter word for the sort of thing one might do to a cipher in order to reveal a hidden message is stripped of its first and last letters (‘devoid of extremes’). The answer is shown by Chambers as ‘archaic’, something which is not explicitly stated in the definition but is implied by the use of ‘It was’.

5d Ticked off flower without tincture? (4)
A six-letter flower of the showy kind surrenders (‘without’) the two-letter heraldic ‘tincture’ which will be familiar to all hardened solvers.

8d Passing remark, one taking effect in blame around court (12, 2 words)
A five-letter word for something that takes effect (the agent noun from a common four-letter verb also meaning ‘eat into’) and the two-letter abbreviation for ‘court’ are separately contained by a five-letter word for ‘hatred’ or ‘blame’. The answer is a (6,6) Latin phrase.

14d Old vessels? One experienced in military service in Spanish parliament (9)
A three-letter North American term for a former member of the armed forces is contained by the six-letter name given to the Spanish parliament, which was also the surname of the Spanish conquistador responsible for the fall of the Aztec empire. What better cue for Neil Young fans to give the Zuma album a well-deserved spin?

17d Electrician consumes rotten matter, ay lost, in temporary part of vessel (8, 2 words)
A five-letter informal word for an electrician (by analogy with which a carpenter should be called a ‘chip’) contains (‘consumes’) a five-letter word for rotten matter (as in a decomposing tooth) from which the consecutive letters AY (from the clue) have been removed (‘lost’). The answer is (4,4).

19d Tramp perished in wartime service (4)
The two-letter abbreviation of the Latin word for ‘died’ (last seen in 7a) is contained by the abbreviation for ‘hostilities only’ – this is less a ‘wartime service’ and more a classification relating to particular ratings in the Royal Navy.

21d Sound made by Scotsman, exceedingly jolly (7)
A homophone for (‘sound made by’) a four-letter name stereotypically given to a Scotsman and a (2-2) informal expression meaning ‘extremely’ lead to the musical term which forms the answer.

28d Try on old-fashioned skirt (4)
A two-letter word for a try or an attempt is followed by the ubiquitous piece of commercial jargon for ‘concerning’ often indicated in crosswords using ‘on’ or ‘about’.

(definitions are underlined)

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22 Responses

  1. Marmite Smuggler says:

    I have to step in here and remind solvers of one of Azed’s all-time great clues. I have posted it elsewhere several times:

    Paddy’s temptation: a drink along the way (4)

    There is only one headword in Chambers and it diminishes the clue not one jot that all three definitions (for it is a triple definition) have the same etymology.

    Stefan

    • Doctor Clue says:

      Thanks, Stefan

      Chambers often groups meanings which have diverged very significantly under the same headword, and this can be taken into consideration when writing multi-definition clues, particularly for barred puzzles. As we say in the Setting Room:

      A double definition clue guides the solver to the answer by giving two separate definitions of it. Ideally these should be of two different headwords in the dictionary (so the definitions are not ‘cognate’), as in

      “Put up with pain in the neck (4)” for BORE [past tense of ‘bear’; noun]

      but as long as the two meanings are different enough to pin down the answer, that is fine. An example that would not pass muster would be

      “Live with bear (6)” for SUFFER [verb; verb], which could equally well be a clue for ENDURE or STAND, but

      “Screen cricket match (4)” for TEST [verb; noun = ‘test match’] is fine.

      The OED generally gives a clearer picture. For the answer to the clue which you quote, the first definition refers to a different headword from the second and third defs, which themselves appear under sense I (the temptation) and sense II (the refreshment) of their headword. As always, the key question is whether the various definitions lead unambiguously to the answer, and in that clue they do. Beyond that, the beauty of a clue is reflected in the eye of the beholder.

      • Marmite Smuggler says:

        Thank you, Doctor Clue. I checked my SOD (no mean feat at my age) and there are indeed different headwords, though they are very closely linked. Isn’t it irrelevant?—We use Chambers: one headword. For some of the clues you list, I’d not disallow them, I’d just consider the setter so poor that I don’t want to waste my time.

        I am new to the Clue Clinic but you touched on something (4Dn), about whether Azed should be including in all clues specific references to (obs), archaic, (Spens), (dial) with his Jock’s, ‘up north’. ‘local’, ‘down under’, ‘at the MCG’ (which is just up the road from me!); not to mention words which might or might not be foreign. Perhaps the discussion should go in The Setting Room but I have strong views in defence of Azed, and Chambers is so random that it’s hard to place a line. I find nothing wrong with 4Dn.

        As a hello to some of the other posters here, I, too, couldn’t make out 7Ac.

        I might also add that there is an old Scottish song which nobody can really translate. A modern version is Mo Ghille Mear (please chase up the the Dublin Scholars singing it) but, in the pub I was singing in, over fifty yeas ago, the chorus went “O Hó-Ró, the Gilly Mar”. I am still delighted, after even more than fifty years, that I find new words in Chambers. But even I knew: there is no such word as ‘ohoroso’. Mind you, I still looked.

        Stefan

        • Doctor Clue says:

          I hope that you would never see a clue like ‘Live with bear’ for SUFFER, ENDURE etc because I would expect the editor to have rewritten it.

          I’ve got no problem with 4d for two reasons: firstly, as I said in the notes, the past tense in the definition tells us that the word is no longer part of everyday English; and secondly, Chambers – rightly or wrongly – classifies it as ‘archaic’, and thus as ‘not absolutely obsolete, but no longer in general use’. Some barred puzzle editors would, however, take the view that an answer like this needed to be flagged, either implicitly, as Azed has done here, or explicitly using a qualifier such as ‘neglected’ or ‘formerly’.

          Chambers uses the classifications ‘obs’ (obsolete), ‘archaic’, ‘rare’ and ‘hist’ (historical) for words that are no longer (or never were) in common use. Those classified as obsolete are defunct as far as the language of today goes, and must always be flagged as such, typically using adjectives or adverbs such as ‘ancient’, ‘former’ or ‘once’ They can also be flagged implicitly, often through the use of a verb in the past tense, eg ‘It imitated velvet’ for MOCKADO. Expressions classified as ‘rare’ are flagged using qualifiers such as ‘rare’ or ‘uncommonly’. Editors usually expect words shown as being archaic or historical to be flagged in a similar way to an obsolete word, although strictly speaking such words are still (just) part of the language.

          • Marmite Smuggler says:

            I’ll take this discussion to The Setting Room, when I’ve had time to look through past posts. And when I’ve had my morning pyfelets, which may or may not be dialect. My friends now buy ‘pyfelets’: in Australia!

            Stefan

  2. 🍊 says:

    Immersing myself in Regency romances, as I’m wont to do, I got stuck dancing the COTILLION which has little to do with boxers. 💃🕺And there’s no decent emojis.

    But, otherwise, yeah a bit meh, apart from the uncrossed letters being an anagram of another West Midlands town —sigh— how does he do it!

    • Doctor Clue says:

      ‘Cotillion’ – yes, that would have made a nice answer. The title of a Georgette Heyer novel, I think (my mum had a lot of her books), which makes it about as Regency as anything can be.

      They do say that if you play the hidden track at the end of Abbey Road (side 2) backwards, you can clearly hear John saying, “Paul is a yam yam”.

  3. Wil Ransome says:

    It’s very sad. People who are new to Azed crosswords will see this and form a pretty low opinion of him, whereas if they had come to his crosswords some years ago they would have realised what a towering figure he was. I’m afraid that this crossword was about as bad as any of Azed’s can have been: at least two or three clues are unsound, I counted twelve clues that are utterly meaningless, and there were no clues where I thought “that’s nice”. If I had submitted any of these clues to one of his competitions I doubt whether more than one or two — possibly — would have earned HCs and I’d be very surprised if any would have got VHCs or higher. It’s not for me to tell him, but someone he knows and respects should just say “look, your standards have fallen. Don’t do any more damage to a reputation that is richly deserved and withdraw.

    These views are not just mine — some well-known and respected figures in the crossword world have expressed opinions that have led to this, about which I’m very unhappy.

  4. David Paget says:

    Evening Doc
    Re 33 across
    Wikipedia says the 1 3/4 miles unit comes from the sanskrit for “call”
    The “call” being thought to be the distance one human could be heard by another.
    An ancient subcontinental standard unit of distance since 4BCE.
    Enjoyed the AZED as well !

    • Doctor Clue says:

      Thanks, David

      Your comment prompted me to look further into the ‘average’ business, which I was struggling to understand. It seems to relate to the practice of placing structures of some sort (milestone fashion) along a route at a fixed distance from each other measured in ????; dividing the total length of the route measured accurately in miles by the number of ‘stages’ and the length of the interval in ???? yields the ‘average’ referred to. But it all depends which route you choose; according to Sir Henry Yule, “Actual measurement of road distance between 5 pair of Akbar’s ????-pyramids near Delhi gave a mean of 2 miles 4 furlongs 158 yards.’ So perhaps this is an ‘average average’? The term ‘country mile’ springs to mind.

  5. Anon Cues says:

    Hi Doc, I took the plunge and solved my first Azed (and my first barred) grid this weekend. I have the sense that I may have missed him at his best, but I found the clues on the whole enjoyable to solve. A different experience from blocked puzzles (and dare I say it, easier than some of the BH specials with clue gimmicks etc that I’ve muddled through). Much unknown vocab, but that presented no issue with the Chambers app at my side. 7A did confuse me – and I spent a time pondering whether obselete could mean “kicked the bucket”.

    Agree with reservations above re the Italian musical term (being a musician myself) – not how I would say it! Fortunately, the crossers helped me confirm I had the right solution.

    I wondered what you’d make of the link word in 11a. “Expert’s flaw?” seems a more obvious option to me (and a better surface perhaps).

    • Doctor Clue says:

      Hi Anon

      Well done! I think it’s fair to say that the last couple of years have seen something of a dip in Azed’s form, but he has remained true to the principle that the wordplay should in almost all instances enable solvers to establish the answer, particularly if the word/phrase is likely to be unfamiliar to them. It was unfortunate about 7a, and I would certainly favour your version of 11a over the published clue.

      Several years ago I did blogs every Sunday for Azed, the barred Mephisto in the Sunday Times, and the Sunday Times blocked cryptic. It was not unusual for the blocked puzzle to take me longer to solve (and that includes parsing all clues to my satisfaction) than either of the others.

  6. Jim Hackett says:

    Hi Stu,

    I had exactly the same problem when solving on our Oz Saturday (the URL was up ‘early’ [before 21.00 on the UK Friday], as seems to be usual). I asked the good Doc (via email) to include a relevant Note but then looked at the Ch pronunciation and ‘cancelled’ my request. Do Italians speak a GEE as the first syllable?

    I don’t want to be picky but should ‘Picked’ in 30a be ‘Pick’?

    Doc has a very good point re ‘boxer’. Azed did not write that clue?

  7. Stu says:

    21D the homophone doesn’t work if you say it the way the Italians do … I didnt think to check Chambers’ suggested pronunciation. It was the only one I couldn’t parse, so your difficulty rating is spot on.

    • Doctor Clue says:

      The pronunciations given by Chambers suggest that the homophone nearly works, but I am very suspicious in general of homophone clues for words or phrases that come directly from another modern language, especially a Romance language.

    • Jim Hackett says:

      Thank you Stu (and thanks again Doc). I agree with ‘nearly’ works.
      Like Wil, I remained a bit ’empty’ after Azed and consoled myself with the Guardian Genius 273 by ‘Turnstone’ which is very good. Took me 7 h but others will be much quicker. Till next weekend and Gemelo.

  8. MuchPuzzled says:

    I loved the clue about “boxers” and thought that the lack of capitalisation was an acceptable form of misdirection.

    The one that really foxed me was 30A where even having one of two possible solutions I was unable to disambiguate the clue. It was only after some time that, having got the crucial letter from the intersection at 21D, I then realised it was a partial anagram courtesy of the “Almost” in the clue.

    Generally it was a very satisfying solve and I agree with your difficulty rating.

  9. Alex says:

    Hi Doc, thanks again for the remarks and analysis. For 22a you say that “..(the) definition leaves no doubt about the correct answer” . It was the cryptic indications that confirmed the required answer for me. My understanding is that the port (larboard) and starboard sides of a vessel are fixed, defined as the left and right sides respectively, when facing the bow. The answer here refers to the side sheltered from the wind and can be either port or starboard, depending on orientation and weather conditions. So I would suggest that the setter’s definition may be unsound.

    • Doctor Clue says:

      Hi Alex

      I’m afraid that I didn’t phrase my remark very clearly at all – I will reword it along the lines of ‘Although the general nature of the definition leaves no doubt…’. There are only three other words in Chambers which fit with the crossers and they have no nautical connection whatsoever. In my view the definition is indeed unsound, for the reason that you mention, but also because ‘indicating port side’ doesn’t cut it for me as a definition of an adverb.

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