Notes for Azed 2,769

There are usually one or two points of interest in an Azed puzzle, and here we pick them out for comment. Please feel free to add your own questions or observations on any aspect of the puzzle (including clues not listed below) either by using the comment form at the bottom of the page or, if would prefer that your question/comment is not publicly visible, by email.

Azed 2,769 Plain

Difficulty rating: 3 out of 5 stars (3 / 5)

I am reliably informed that the number of entries for the first ‘online submission available to all’ competition in July showed a very substantial increase from the June comp, which is very encouraging. This was also the first comp where the clues were anonymized prior to being sent to the judge; as a correspondent pointed out, no names from the top 10 from the 2023/24 Honours List appeared, among the prize-winners or VHCs, although it would be premature to read anything into that. In any event, given the ease of submission, there has never been a better time to enter the clue writing competition.

As for today’s puzzle, it seemed to me perhaps just a little above the average difficulty for a plain Azed. The clues appeared slightly uninspired on the whole, and decidedly ‘loose’ in places. Apart from the points covered below, a regular correspondent has suggested that the definition in 8d is rather weak; I would agree with that.

Clue Writers’ Corner: The fact that Azed is now going to be presented with a list of clues in a single spreadsheet surely makes it all the more important that your clue should ‘speak’ (or even shout) to him. A clue that appears interesting at first read is likely to stand a better chance than one that needs to be read several times before its full subtlety is revealed. That doesn’t mean that the clue needs to be of a particular type, simply that it needs to have something that is likely to take the judge’s eye, whether that is a particular word like ‘Azed’ or ‘Corbyn’, an intriguing or amusing surface reading, or a lower-than-usual word count. Never forget, though, that soundness of clue is imperative -a clue which is grammatically flawed in the cryptic reading is almost certain to fail.

As for today’s competition word, perhaps the less said the better. I would say that while accuracy in the cryptic element of the clue remains paramount, a degree of latitude will have to be allowed when it comes to the definition; the most important thing is to ensure that your definition leads to a noun which in some way describes, or at least suggests, the condition or its result.

Across

11a Husband on stage in afternoon, displaying calmness (6)
The usual abbreviation for ‘husband’ and a word for a stage (perhaps of a race) are contained by two letters representing ‘after noon’ which are allowed for ‘afternoon’ in cryptics even if the two are not quite the same thing.

12a Nip power off edge (4)
The way that the clue is presented, it would appear that the single-letter abbreviation for ‘power’ should be removed from (‘off’) a word for ‘edge’, but in fact we have to assume a comma (or the word ‘with’) after ‘Nip’, so the starting point is a five-letter word for ‘nip’.

14a Accountants as a group gathering SA currency as capital (5)
A four-letter abbreviation for an association of accountants contains (‘gathering’) the abbreviation for the standard monetary unit of South Africa, producing the name of an African capital city. I’m not too keen on ‘gathering’ on its own to indicate containment (‘gathering in’ would be fine), and ‘SA currency’ should I think be ‘little SA currency’ or similar, since we being asked to use not the name of the currency but an abbreviation for it; I wouldn’t consider ‘old French currency’ acceptable for F.

17a Errand boy once pocketing two articles in lathe accessory (7)
An obsolete (‘once’) word for a person who runs errands (these days someone described thus would be a terrible rotter) contains (‘pocketing’) two articles, one definite and the other indefinite (in either order), the result being the name given to ‘an attachment to a lathe to assist in supporting long bars when they are being turned’.

18a Fabulous bird, tailless kind (4)
A five-letter word meaning ‘kind’ or, more commonly, ‘relating to people’ is stripped of its last letter (‘tailless’) to produce a fabulous bird, said to be a restless wanderer but to bring luck to anyone over whom it hovers. If you’ve concluded that the bird overhead is either one of these or a seagull, I would suggest that your luck will be greatly improved by taking cover sharpish.

24a S-sweet local chat? (4)
A rare sighting of a ‘stuttering’ clue, where the letter S (from the clue) is followed by a three-letter informal word for a sweet (Mmmm…dessert 😋). A look in Chambers will confirm that ‘chat’ is a dialect word for the sort of agricultural runt that Tom Kerridge would surely prevent from reaching the shelves of M&S.

28a Pipe I’ll fill a little? Reverse of that (5)
The letter I (from the clue) is inserted into a (1,3) expression meaning ‘a little’, and the whole lot is then reversed (‘Reverse of that’). The required sense of the answer may not be familiar, but in Latin the word means not only a shin-bone but also a flute or pipe.

31a Measure island denied land for island (5)
A slightly strange clue, where a three-letter measure (“Give him an inch and he’ll take an ???”) is followed by the word ISLAND from which the letters LAND have been removed (‘denied land’). The answer is not an island, rather it forms part of the name of a particular island in New York Harbo(u)r.

33a Guinness? One served by clubs (4)
Quite a nice clue, where the three-letter name for a type of alcoholic drink (‘one’, ie ‘Guinness’) is followed by the usual abbreviation for ‘clubs’, the answer being the first name of famous English actor perhaps best known to a somewhat younger audience for his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. There is a slight problem with the clue, in that Guinness is an example of the three-letter drink (porter and IPA would be others), but this is not indicated – ‘One perhaps served by clubs’ would be fine.

Down

2d Ticked off youngster giving up Latin (4)
A five-letter word for a youngster surrenders the single-letter abbreviation for ‘Latin’.

3d Swell without a blemish (5)
I’m very surprised that this clue got into print. It requires that a four-letter word for a blemish should contain the letter A (from the clue), but there are two big problems. Firstly there needs to be a comma after ‘a’, otherwise it is the ‘swell’ that ought to contain the A. Worse, though, is the use of the preposition ‘without’ to indicate containment, requiring an archaic sense which Azed has historically not allowed.

5d Exchanging money, being absorbed by the Mona Lisa? (4)
The solver first has to ‘translate’ the Mona Lisa into its Italian name, and then extract four letters from within.

9d Scratch regional runner such as S.Ovett, black (6)
I could readily identify two possible ‘runners such as S. Ovett’, one being his arch-rival S COE and the other the ‘Jarrow Arrow’ who won a silver medal in the 1500m at the 1984 Olympics (or, as they would say these days, ‘he podiumed in LA’). The initial and surname of the latter are followed by the usual abbreviation for ‘black’.

11d Forced to fit vineyards in assuming various shapes (11)
A four-letter word for ‘vineyards’ or ‘vintages’ is contained by a word meaning ‘assuming various shapes’, from the name of a shapeshifting Greek sea-god. The definition isn’t quite right; it would be ok for the rather splendid past participle ???????????IZED, but the answer here demands something more along the lines of ‘forcing everything to fit’.

22d Is shed what may start a blaze? (6)
A well-disguised double definition, the first word being a verb in the third person singular and the second being a plural noun. As I wrote those last two words, I wondered whether ‘thorax’ could be described as a ‘pleural noun’…

27d Source of middle eastern verse, say, to continue once the sun goes in (5)
A three-letter archaic word meaning to endure or continue contains the more common spelling of the two-letter name of the Egyptian sun-god (ie ‘once the sun goes in’).

30d Scots ale making one sick, finishing off yard (4)
A rather convoluted wordplay, where a three-letter word for ‘sick’ follows (‘finishing off’) the single-letter abbreviation for ‘yard’.

(definitions are underlined)

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23 Responses

  1. Jay says:

    I wanted to comment last week regarding 5d. It appears to be a two stage process not dissimilar to an indirect anagram. In this case identifying a synonym from which a hidden element is extracted. Do you consider this to be any fairer than an indirect anagram? Appreciate your thoughts.

    • Doctor Clue says:

      Hi Jay

      I don’t consider that indirectness in ‘hiddens’ or anagrams is unfair or unacceptable per se; it all depends, as with all clues, on what is being expected of the solver.

      In 2,627, Azed included the clue “What gallery displays in reproduction of it – see plaque (6)”. This involves the word ART (‘what gallery displays’) being put inside an anagram (‘reproduction of’) ART (‘it’) to produce TARTAR. The word ART does not appear in the clue, so strictly speaking this represents an indirect anagram, something which has been outlawed in crosswords since the 1970s, when clues such as this one from the Stinker in Weekend magazine were not uncommon:

      “Changing course naturally involves work (4)” for OPUS, being an anagram of SOUP.

      I think that most setters would feel that for a ‘hidden’ or an anagram involving a word or words which do not themselves appear in the clue to be allowable, the required word(s) must be those which will spring to the solver’s mind. So this Azed clue from a few years back for LUCRE, “Persistent source of evil, he escapes Poirot deviously?” [(he)RCULE*], seems perfectly fair.

      Azed 2,576 included the clue “Like a semiconductor, installation for 20p (in full)? (5)” for N-TYPE [(twe)NTY PE(nce)]. I think this is absolutely fine, as would be (say) “Odd job in capital of Romania (4)” for CHAR [(bu)CHAR(est)]. I would, though, have a problem with “Joint dog hides (3)” for HIP [(w)HIP(pet)] as it seems to me that there are far too many possible ‘dogs’ to choose from (not just breeds but ‘follow’, ‘worry’ etc).

      The clue “Exchanging money, being absorbed by the Mona Lisa? (4)” for AGIO looks very much like a ‘hidden’, and if the hiding place isn’t in plain view it can only realistically be another name for the Mona Lisa – I can only think of two possibilities, ‘La Joconde’ and ‘La Gioconda’, and since the latter gives me the answer I don’t need to look for any more.

      Solvers are dealing with indirectness all the time (whenever they see ‘artist’ and turn it into RA, for instance). It’s all a matter of degree, and I would get satisfaction from solving all the above clues – apart from the OPUS one!

      But, as always, alternative views are welcomed.

      • Andrew Wardrop says:

        I broadly agree. I don’t remember the Azed clues you mention, but probably solved them at the time. I suspect, however, that I identified possible words from the checked letters, picked one that fitted the definition, and then looked to see how the wordplay worked. That’s certainly what I did with the Gioconda clue. In other words I went from the answer back to the clue, not from the clue to the answer. I suppose how you get to the answer doesn’t really matter, but I find going from clue to answer is usually slightly more satisfying.

      • Jay says:

        Many thanks for the detailed response. This is clear in my mind now. It seems fair that if the first step of the solving process is to arrive at a synonym of a word/s in the clue is a clear one without multiple options, then it is also fair to ask the solver to perform a secondary action (e.g. make an anagram, look for a hidden) to arrive at the final solution.

        • Doctor Clue says:

          That’s the way I see it, and the onus is always on the setter (and the editor!) to know where to draw the line. The removal of the first and last letters of a word which is indicated rather than stated, eg ‘unconfined joy’ for (d)ELIGH(t), is an accepted manoeuvre, but I don’t think that ‘unconfined delight’ for (j)O(y) would go down too well.

  2. Maggie says:

    I got it almost completed last night, but cannot get 1a. I’ve got a collection of consonants at the beginning that make no sense to me. *CBLA*TE*IS. Is it two words? I found 10d interesting – a word I’d never come across before.

    • Iain says:

      Your letters are AOK. One word. If ever more, it’s stated. Based on Greek root.

      • Maggie says:

        Thank you, Iain. I’ll keep thinking about it. Did Latin at school a century ago, but no Greek.

        • Doctor Clue says:

          I did Greek, but most of my vocabulary comes from Xenophon’s Anabasis, so I’m well up on words that relate to marching, like stades and parasangs. Other stuff, not so much. The word here begins with an E and can be found in both Chambers and the online Collins.

  3. Iain says:

    I parsed 3d with ‘without’ operating on the definition word: in pseudocode without(a,Swell) , which was then to be unified with Blemish. A to-me fairly novel backward working which I found interesting, as I did the slightly odd-looking but aiui sound 31a.

    I’m personally not bothered by the fact that the 31a solution is one-word only. I’m probably following Gricean pragmatic principles and asking whether any information was being withheld or lost by my giving just the one-word answer. Most probably not, I thought. Both Azed and I, and any observers, would know what was meant. Mind you, I did get caught out at the U3A Christmas quiz, when I suggested Scafell as an answer when it should have been Scafell Pike. But in that case they were two distinct entities, and I did feel duly guilty.

    Incidentally, I looked for legalistic instances of containerish ‘without’ on bailii.org. I didn’t find any, but then realised that ‘outwith’ was what I should have been looking for, and found hundreds, usually in the likes of “outwith the Act’s provisions.”

    • Doctor Clue says:

      I’m sure that anyone who owned a Sinclair Scientific back in the day would have found 3d straightforward.

      Regarding 31a, I still remember a Listener clue in which I’d defined ALOE by ‘Vera perhaps’ being rejected, and I’ve been very careful ever since not to use (say) ‘island’ for EASTER or ‘bean’ for MUNG.

  4. Adelaide says:

    Is the slip available for 2768 ? I cant see it on crossword centre – Im assuming then that the observation re the names came from the published results in the Observer – for the record I was in the top 10 but havent entered at all this year – I think I peaked then

    • Doctor Clue says:

      I am given to understand that with the transition to the new process for the judging of the clues it may be some time before the Slip is available – I’m sure that the correspondent who made the observation about last year’s Honours List based it on the names published in the paper.

      Well done for that top 10 finish – more than I’ve ever managed!

      • Andrew Wardrop says:

        I wasn’t in the 2768 list of names for the same reason as Adelaide: I decided to take a sabbatical in 2024/5. I’ll be interested to see the slip though. I’m impressed that you feel you should have known today’s 1a word. Still, you are the doctor.

        • Doctor Clue says:

          Thanks, Andrew

          I think it’s worth noting that only four of the top 10 (11 including ties) were responsible for published clues in the previous comp (2,763), albeit three of them occupied the podium positions, and we now know that at least two of them didn’t enter 2,768, so any suggestion of a seismic shift would be decidedly premature.

          • RJHe says:

            The most remarkable fact about last month’s competition results is that, of the 23 entrants who gained prizes or VHCs, not one of them finished in the top 10 of last season’s Honours List! When (or if) we finally see it, the Slip should make *very* interesting reading.

            • Doctor Clue says:

              Yes, Andrew Shields made a similar point in a comment on 2,768. We’ve established that at least two of that ‘top 11’ didn’t enter the July comp, but even so…

              PS Even more interesting (he says, slightly mischievously) would be to see all the clues, with just the authorship of the prize-winners and VHCs shown.

  5. JOHN ATKINSON says:

    An enjoyable puzzle but I must own up to breaking one of my personal rules regarding what I consider to be unacceptable cheating. I only got the answer 18 by googling your words “a fabulous bird …bring luck to anyone over whom it hovers.”

    Also, I used a word-finder to find the word that starts with the second and third letters of 1. Oh, the shame.

    • Doctor Clue says:

      I probably should have known the word at 1, but without any wordplay I did exactly the same as you 😳.